good afternoon and welcome to the
meeting I'd like to acknowledge the
original custodians of our land the
Gadigal people of the Eora Nation and pay
my respects to the elders past and
present and acknowledge the
Torres Strait Islander people who live in
our city as well as the people of the
very many
nations I'd also like to go to the
prayer Almighty God we thank you for the
gift of this remarkable City help us to
deal with its needs and aspirations of
all its people with compassion and
fairness and to plan its future with
wisdom and farsightedness thank
you
so I'd like to welcome staff counselors
and visitors to our extraordinary
meeting today on the 4th of March
we're in attendance this afternoon we
have myself Clover Moore the Mayor we
have the deputy Lord Mayor councilor
Robert Kok Councilor Hy William Chan and
councilor Emelda Davis Sylvia Ellsmore Lyndon
Gannon Shauna Jarrett Robert
Kok I've already mentioned Robert sorry
Council Linda Scott counc Yvonne Weldon and
councelor Adam Whirling we have our CEO
here Monica Barone and our other
directors the meeting is audio visually
recorded webcast live and
archived in the city's website
and you are asked to refrain from making
any defamatory statements and ensure
there's no personal criticism directed
at any speaker or
staff so statement of ethical
obligations and discloses of interest in
accordance with section 233a of the
Local Government Act 1993 Lord Mayor and
councilors are bound by the oath
affirmation of office at the start of
council at the start of council
term to undertake our civic duties in
the best interest of the people of the
City of Sydney and the City of Sydney
Council and to faithfully and
impartially carry out functions powers
authorities and discretions vested in us
under the Local Government Act 1993 or
any other act the best of our ability in
judgment do I have any disclosures of
interest are there any
right okay item two minutes by the
Lord Mayor 2.1 action on
asbestos so i' I'd like to move my
minute and I want to make it very
clear that the issues we are facing with
asbestos contamination were not caused by
the City of Sydney instead this is a
massive failure of state-based
regulatory system the statewide extent
of the contamination problem indicates
that just as we have seen enormous
failures with the New South Wales
government's private building
certification system the community has
been badly let down by the regulatory
process that governs the safety of
recycled
mulch this is all the more shocking when
you consider that the former coalition
government commissioned the office of
the New South Wales Chief scientist and
engineer to carry out a review into the
management of asbestos in December 2022
which the current labour government has
not released the number of positive
sites in New South Wales has now risen
to 61 after hundreds of tests around the
state including schools hospitals and
parklands for big uses of mulch such as
the city of Sydney there are over 350
parks and reserves and extend ens of
plantings the cost of testing disposed
on remedial work are having and will
have a substantial impact on our rate
payers as is the fencing off and the
loss of recreational space for our
residents the city has only used
horticultural mulch for the last six
years in City run owned
childcare centres and that's comforting
not only to council but also to our
community it is recycled mulch where the
contamination has been found and is the
external state-based regulatory process
which is failing to detect contamination
it is also shocking that this statewide
issue was only discovered when a child
took home a piece of asbestos
contaminated mulch from the new ?
Parklands there has been a suggestion
that the city should have begun testing
350 parks and 5,750 garden beds in
our local government area as soon as the
discovery was made this was only not
only contrary to the professional advice
we received would have cost our rate
payers and residents over $9 million and
have taken 167 weeks over 3 years to
complete it's taken 3 weeks to get 41
tests back that is for 36 parks and five
garden beds
from the ? and that's come from
our specialist Consultants who are doing
13 tests a week if we had tested all of
our parks we would have had to order at
least
2,169 tests that would have taken more
than 3 years to complete I know the
Department of Education doesn't test
every school in New South Wales and the
New South Wales Health has not tested
every hospital nor has any other Council
taken this
approach at that stage and until now EPA
investigations into the source of the
contaminated mulch have not made any
findings and there are no guarantees of
compliance standards of replacement
mulch at this stage the testing has cost
the City
$200,000 which doesn't include remedial
works and doesn't factor in the cost of
any replacement mulch the city will be
seeking advice from the EPA on how to
ensure materials supplied for community
use are fit for purpose in urban
environment ? and meet Australian
standards and legislative requirements
any implications extending into
2024 will be incorporated into the
draft budget report to Council in May
2024 as well as burgeoning costs our
residents have been barred from
accessing their parks and open spaces
which are contaminated it's a costly
mess and yet another failure of state
governments regulatory processes I would
therefore like to thank our staff for
the swift action in relation to this
matter and acting responsibly under the
advice and guidance of the EPA and other
experts I propose to write to the New
South Wales Premier Minister for health
Minister of the environment and Minister
for work health and safety with a copy
of my minute to one express council's
serious concern about the contamination
of multi supply chains and how this
happened and urging the New South Wales
government to release information on the
progress of the office of the New South
Wales scientists and Engineers of speci
do management review which was
commissioned in December 2022 and two
request information from the New South
Wales government's asbestos task force
including the current regulations
covering the processing and quality
control of much of mulch product and
whether the prohibitive cost of asbestos
disposal was a factor in mulch being
contaminated B the current penalties for
breach of relevant regulations C the
terms of reference for the asbestos task
force and whether it will make
recommendations on any changes required
to avoid a repeat of this regulatory failure
and details of program that with their
investigations to date and urge the New
South Wales government to introduce
stricter rules and penalties to prevent
mulch supply chains being contaminated
with asbestos in the future I'm also
asking the CEO to continue to regularly
update Council and the community about
the extent and impact of the
contaminated mulch in our area through
the City of Sydney website and
communication channels so I recommend
my minute to you and move the
recommendations seconded by the Deputy
Lord mayor
councilor
Scott thanks Lord Mayor I know we have
a range of people here in the
chambers today including the chair of
our own audit and risk committee Carolyn
Walsh and people from New South Wales
Health and also a range of other
government agencies dealing with this
matter I'm wondering if we could
move to suspend standing orders to
have the opportunity to ask them
questions and also to ask City staff
questions before we deal with this
matter thank you Councilor Scott well
to do that we will have to go into
committee of the whole do I any other
have any other comments that anyone
wants to make
now about my
minute okay so we'll vote on the Mayoral
minute after we come out of the committee
of the whole so I'll move the procedural
move motion that pursuant to section 373
of the Local Government Act 1993 Council
form itself into committee of the whole
for the purpose of enabling members of
the public to address counselors on the
matters currently before them Sarah
seconder Council Deputy Mayor I'll
put that to you all those in favor say I
those against declare it carried so
would our speakers Caroline Walsh and
the representatives from health and EPA
like to come up and perhaps the
EPA could come up up
to thanks very much so do we have
questions for Miss
Walsh Council
Scott thanks Lord mayor Miss Walsh
you've briefed us earlier today thank
you for providing us with that
additional information and the Lord
Mayor today has has moved a
motion that has sought information from
the new SAR government's asbestos task
force I understand you're the chair of
that that seeks the information
about the current regulations covering
the processing and quality control of
the mulch product and also the
current penalties for breach of the
relevant
regulations the terms of reference
and the details of the progress with the
investigation to date I'm wondering if
it's possible if you could just give us
to the extent that you can in a
public forinformation about the
current regulations the penalties and
the terms of reference of your
investigation and any progress that's
been made to date that you're able to
speak
about Miss Walsh thank you Lord Mayor
councilor Scott yes I'm Carolyn Walsh
I'm the independent chair of the
New South Wales task force into
this issue and as mentioned I'm
also the chair of the City of
Sydney's audit and risk committee
today I'm here really wearing the task
force's hat in terms of advising
the city and the council about the
work of the task force so this task
force was established soon after the
incident became to the came to the
government's attention and I was asked
to chair a task force which was designed
to do two things the first was to ensure
that there was a swift and whole of
government approach to this particular
issue to ensure that the all of
the resources of government were B to
Bear to identifying the extent of the
problem and to moving as quickly as
possible to keep the community safe and
then to move on to the remediation of
the sites that were affected by
this so my role as the task force chair
has been the task force has
met daily mostly we've missed a couple
of days in the last week week or so as
we've been waiting testing coming in but
involves agencies from Premier C
the cabinet office treasury EPA safe
work Health fire and rescue and
then there are a number of others
that just don't have before me at the
moment so it is a means by which we
get a whole of government response to
this particular issue but the scope of
the workforce activities is to do as I
say two things the first is the
immediate response to this particular
issue and then turn our minds the BR
issue that you're raising Councilor Scott
about the adequate and Lord Mayor about the
adequacy of the current regulatory
environment and any need to further
strengthen the regulatory
framework and the including the
penalties available to both the EPA
safe work and other regulatory
agencies that will be informed by the
outcome of the investigation that's
currently underway by the EPA I can't
speak to the investigation it' be
inappropriate to do so it is a a
large scale investigation being
undertaken by the EPA in order to
identify how the contamination got
into the recycled product by whom and
whether there were any criminal breaches
as a result of that and that
investigation is underway by my
colleagues in the in the EPA what I
can say though is that we are
absolutely turning our attention now to
not only the regulatory framework for
dealing with asbestos but the broader
issue that asbestos is common within our
built environment it was used
extensively during the 20th century as
building material on brake pads on
multiple ways in which we use this
product and it will and it and it does
pose a a very significant challenge
to the community going forward and will
do for decades and so the work of
there has been a a new South wales's
best us Coordination Committee that's
been up and running for the last few
years which I also chair which is why I
became chair of this task task force
which has been looking at how do we
actually further ensure that we've
got Hall of government approaches to
deal with the broader issue of asbestos
in the community and that work is
also underway within the New South
Wales government Council Scot address
the key parts of your
question Council
Scott thanks thanks very much I
think so I think just really the
other component was the terms of
reference
I don't know whether you're able to
table the terms of reference or not
but it would be great if that was
possible at some
point microphone sorry
Caroline you do need to each time on
otherwise it doesn't go through the live
stream so
my sorry that was my okay I I don't
have them right here with me to table
right at the moment but I will get them
to you thank you Scott does anyone have
any questions for M Walsh yes Lord mayor
I have a couple more if that's okay
would you like to go ahead with them
thank you yes we we've also
been asked in this two
questions you also being asked in these
Council papers to release information
on the progress of the New South Wales
office of Chief scientist and Engineers
asbestos management review so I just
wanted whether that had been handed to
government yet or not whether you knew
and also to confirm it's my
understanding that there is a local
government representative on your task
force and is that correct so in terms of
the office of the chief scientists
work yes the I as the chair of the
New South Wales speci Coordination
Committee did commission that work for
the chief scientist it came out of a
report on recovered fines which is
basically
what you find in building M and
demolition material at the completion
of De Demolition and how we can better
manage the public health risk when
asbestos is found within those fines at
the moment there is a zero tolerance
approach to those all of the material is
then deemed to be contaminated and
sent to landfill and we want the
chief scientists to undertake some work
to identify exactly what the public
health risk in the way of what's
presented in those recovered fines and
then how best to manage them in
commissioning that work we the Office
of the chief scientist made it clear
that they were not in a position to
commence that work immediately during
due to Resource constraints and then
during 2023 with the Min fish kill
they were again required their resources
were required to deal with that
particular issue my understanding is the
work has now commenced there late
last year they are moving to establish
expert panels to undertake the work and
my understanding is that they'll be
reporting later in 2024 I note the
Lord mayor's intention to write
seeking information about that and be
very help help happy to respond to that
in writing thank you H councelor oh and
the second question I'm sorry sorry Lord
mayor the second the the second question
was in relation
to yeah yes I can confirm that there
is a local there is both an office of
local government representative and a
local government New South Wales
representative on the task force and on
the New South Wales as bestos
Coordination
Committee thank you
Council thank you Lord mayor I was
hoping to ask some questions about
whether we know it's just mulch so I
know obviously you've talked about there
have been some previous inquiries you
mentioned the recovered finds there's
been some media articles around that
where we're just talking about how to
deal with mulch but the the
contamination issues are likely to
relate to contamination that's going to
go into other products that may or may
not be like a if it's a road then you've
compacted down it's not the same issues
everything could be broken up and
breathable I want to specifically ask
about soil fill and whether there are
other whether whether you are confident
that while we're checking mulch we
shouldn't also be checking issues around
where there may be soil F from the same
contamination source so that was one
question or is that CC can you talk into
your mic cuz I Sor I was facing the
speaker instead of the mic so that was
the question about how do we know that
we're just talking about mulch the
second question I wanted to ask was
around
with Greenfield resource recovery is
the name we've discussed and
contamination what are the companies
in between that we're in the chain
that we know and this may be a question
for the city staff here and are are
those names publicly available we've
talked about the community needing to
know and understand if they also
purchase products from those companies
where can people find out which
companies we're already talking about
and check themselves and do some due
diligence and specifically for the city
which companies are we talking about
other other than Green Life resource
recovery that we we know we in the chain
before or
afterwards m w thank you so in
relation to how do we know whether
it's elsewhere obviously I can't give
any guarantees that it's not elsewhere
it is a prolific product and the whole
challenge of the regulatory regime is to
attempt to to ensure that it is dealt
with appropriately and safely through
regulation and enforcement and that
goes to the heart of the matter about
the adequacy of the regulatory regime
that needs to be examined in light of
this particular issue however having
said that as part of this particular
investigation the EPA has looked
initially because it was the most urgent
thing to do at the supply chain
stemming from the Green Life mulch
to work through that supply chain to
identify where that had been unsold to
other parties and then work through and
has track down am I allow it's public
is it 90% yeah and have I'm just
checking to make sure that it's my
numbers are correct they have
actually traced over 90% of that product
so for individuals the next step
for us is to work out how to communicate
to other households about the the
remainder that may be in the supply
chain that is very very difficult to
trace and we'll be moving into doing
that very shortly as a task force to
make sure that information is available
to individuals but it is a very small
amount and I I might get one of my
colleagues other colleagues to talk
about the extent of the the voles
and it is low risk because of the nature
of the asbestos in question with this
particular supply chain being bonded
asbestos rather than fiable asbestos
the the EPA has also been doing
testing across other suppliers to give
confidence that it's not also in a
systemic issue in other suppliers of
Mulch and I'll just ask my colleague
Adam Gilligan from the EPA to indicate
what's happened in relation to other
sources such as soil and landfill and
so
forth thank you Lord mayor and
counselors at the moment the focus of
our investigation is absolutely on
asbestos in mulch because that's where
we've identified these significant
issues but we do regularly conduct
compliance campaigns to ensure that all
of our resource recovery orders and
exemptions are being complied with
and so there are other programs that
go to things like recovered fines and
soils as well obviously the Focus
right now is is very much on the mulch
issue thank you and the second question
about how do we know what other
companies are through that process of
the green life investigation EPA is
aware of the other the supplies in the
supply chain and have been tracking
those down and as I say as we get more
confidence
about the remaining amounts we'll be
making some public statements
about what individuals can do if
they're concerned about any mulch that
they've received over the course of the
last 12 months or
so Council sorry just to clarify thank
you that's useful so I understand the
difference between what's being
investigated with the mulch and the soil
fill but my question about the
company names were what are the names of
the companies and where can the public
find them out and if the answer is
they're not being released yet then
could you let us know that that's Adam
can you advise didn't have my mic on do
I have to say that again what are the
names of the
company through Lord mayor we
haven't released the details of those
companies at this stage while we
continue to work through the supply
chain investigation and and understand
where the material might have gone
can you move your mic Clos to you thank
you my apologies so we're continuing
that work it is coming to a conclusion
and we are encouraging anyone who's
concerned that the mulch that they might
have received is contaminated to
contact us and we can provide some
further advice thank you councilor Wen
thank you in relation to the supply
chain investigations are you able to
advise how many links in the chain that
there are between green life and the
City of Sydney's
contractors we've been dealing with
around 40 suppliers immediately
Downstream of the the primary supplier
of concern and there are a number of
Pathways beyond that that have led us to
over 340 sites of interest but given
it's an active investigation I can't
reveal details of the precise supply
chain
in place in this circstance at this
time Council won so if you're not
publicly releasing them have you advised
the city staff about those
contractors yes we
have thank you so that was you
investigating 40 suppliers in order to
trace the link with green life was that
what you said so there's around 40
suppliers that have received material
from the primary supplier of concern yes
thank you thank you so councilor
Scott thanks Lord mayor we also have
representatives from New South Wes
Health here through you Lord mayor
I'd like to ask Dr mcnalty a
question I've been approached by
presidents I have permission to speak
about one in particular a woman named
Natasha who lives in the city of Sydney
contacted the city and myself
in early January with some concerns
after the discovery of asbestos in the
Rosel interchange she was concerned
for her son Jackson who's three and
she was concerned because she noted
that the mulch in her local park in
rosebury was laid by City
contractors at around the same time that
the mulch in the Rosel interchange
was laid and so she was prompted on
that basis to question whether there
might be a risk of asbestos in the park
in rosebery it has been subsequently
found upon testing that there is a
presence of asbestos in that Park and
so she is understandably concerned about
the health of her child child again
he's three he has been playing in the
park almost daily since it opened of
course up until the presence of asbestos
was detected and like any child
eating breathing in playing in
very close proximity to the mulch
touching it with his hands and feet
and then of course putting those
parts of his body in his mouth
she has concerns about the
health implications for him a and also
questions about the length of time
that it might take to show that there
has been a harmful impact from this
possible exposure I know it's
difficult to talk about one case but
I've been contacted by a range of
parents with similar concerns par
particularly with respect to playing
children of varying ages and
what kind of risk that might look
like and the time frame for possible
detection of misela or other related
diseases Dr mcnalty thanks for the
question and I can understand the
distress that parents would would feel
in that circstance and it as you
say it's it's hard to give individual
advice and but if if a if a parent
is concerned talking with a healthc care
provider is a good thing to do but I
can tell you in principles that
fortunately because the asbestos that
has been identified to date has been not
available for aerosolization and
therefore
respiration we believe the risk is very
very low for
individuals and that would include
people people may have been touching or
playing or even putting in the mouth
materials there's very little
evidence that ingestion of
asbestos containing materials would have
adverse Health
impacts that that with any with many
health issues not all the there's not
all the evidence we would like out there
but it's the evidence there is is
somewhat reassuring it's really about
breathing in asbestos is the major
concern and as we've heard the lack of
available fibers to be breathed in is
reassuring even if small amounts of
fibers were found in the
mulch that's not necessarily a cause for
concern either the context there is
asbestos in the community in the built
environment in natural soils in many
parts of the of the world including
Australia and so we're all exposed to
breathing in asbestos fibers at
relatively low levels every day and
that doesn't have a health impact for
most people the people who are tend to
have health impacts from from
asbestos exposures historically have
been people working in asbestos
Industries mining Milling and so on
and there is of course concern about
people who are might be have fibro in
their house that's gotos in it and then
if they're aerosolizing that that
material by drilling or doing Works to
to DIY programs on the house that's
understandably a concern we all want to
reduce our exposure to asbestos as much
as
possible even though the risk is higher
in those occupational groups in terms
of for those people who have a a
meaningful exposure to
asbestos
there's no immediate testing or anything
that can tell you how much you've had
for people who have health effects
from exposure to asbestos that tends to
take many many years decades to occur
so in those Industries I mentioned
earlier it's typically 20 30 40
years afterwards but again the
information we have to date is
reassuring for parents in the situation
you've described however I can talk only
generally so would encourage parents if
they're concerned to chat with their
GP thanks Dr mcnalty do I have any other
questions councilor Wen thank you I
may I'm not sure if you can answer but
or if it's Council staff so can I I've
got a series of questions what does
testing entail do they pick samples
from various parts of a g a given given
garden bed who was actually
undertaking the testing of the City
Sites am I right in understanding that
it is private contractors and
consultants and how long does it take to
get results back and what is the
confidence of these
results yes I'll go to the CEO first of
all thank you Lord mayor and thank
you Council W through you Lord May I'll
just answer some of the ones that are
very much for the city of Sydney
staff and then ask Veronica if she
needs to add anything so at the moment
we're getting about 13 tests back in a
week so it's taking about that long to
get the tests back we do understand
there is a bit of a backlog because
of course other people across New
South Wales are getting that testing
done yes only a suitably qualified
people can be doing the testing and only
suitably qualified people can do the
remediation so there and we are using
suitably qualifi IED people so I
might so that's what we're doing but I
think councilor Welden the question
about are you confident in the people
who are doing the testing are they
regulated by you and I think your
other question was the confidence about
the testing and
and the yes and and and I'll be
correct that we should be using suitably
qualified people and they are I think
also people that you would I guess
regulate or have some role in
determining what constitute suit be
qualified is that right may I Lord mayor
thank
you you I will answer the other question
or are you referring that what it
entails just a moment please Council W
so who's this now just happy to
introduce Martin from Public Works
who can answer some of the questions
around the type of testing that's done
and who needs to do the
testing thanks very much the initial
IAL approach by Sydney city council is
to use licensed asor assessors and they
are registered through safe work they so
and they they're appropriately trained
what we've discovered is we've seen more
and more sites and the amount of asbest
that is there and the amount is low very
low is that we could actually expand
we can potentially expand the workforce
Beyond those people who are licensed but
obviously they need instructions and
they need guidance a technical working
group for the task force has got
together and that includes safe work
that includes EPA and it includes
ourself from Public Works has put
together or in the final stages
putting together guidance material so
that it's giving the right information
to a broader Workforce not just licensed
topest sucessors because we're seeing
the risk is low the amount of ASB bestas
is very small and so on so that stuff's
going to be released very shortly but
up until now my understanding at city of
Sydney and they all confirm that they'
only used licensed disp assessors and
the regulation of licensed disp
assessors is via safe
work see and I think that Council Wen
also says asked are you confident with
the people who are doing that testing
that they're doing the right thing and
they're testing the right way and I
might just PR so obviously depending
on the size of a of an area Council
Welden we might sample a few different
places so is that that's the
appropriate way to do it they're
qualified to do it and we can be
confident in the test results we get
from these people is that
right I love the way it jps on and off
you can be confident in the quality
of their testing they're doing two
different types of testing they're
identifying fragments and the fragments
are being tested as individual fragments
for their type and they're also doing
voles of mulch and they're testing
that looking for what's in it they're
different sorts of tests they're all
aiming to sort of try and tell you two
things what's the vole of problem you
have and what is the nature of that
problem what most of the samples are
showing is that the asbest is more often
than not bonded there are some
fragments that are not bonded it's the
vinyl tile with an adhesive attached to
it or it's very small fragments that are
deemed to be for their size therefore
to be Frable but look the the reports
speak for themselves sometimes they
reported a little bit differently but
I've seen some of the city of Sydney
reports and I note that every
presentation where asbest has been found
the risk rating has been low and we'd
agree with that I think I've seen a
lot of the city of Sydney reports but
again
I I know that city of Sydney got a
responsible laa at this stage yeah
thank thanks very much do I have any
other
questions councelor
elore just check my mic is working sorry
Lord may I actually had two questions
for Dr mcnalty the he that's all
right and final two
questions it's very heartening to hear
that the assessed risk is very very low
for the communities come in contact
with the mulch and that's good my
question is around how that's being the
first one how it's being communicated to
the community because at the moment the
advice we have on our Council website is
if you find it don't touch it if you
want advice about how much risk there is
go to the Health Website you go to the
health website and the fact sheet it
talks about how asbestos can be
dangerous but there's no specific people
want what people want to know is how
much risk are we under from the parks
that we've been engaging with given what
you now know so if the advice really
is that it's an assessment that the risk
is very very low for people who've
been to City of Sydney Parks is that
going to be put somewhere that we can
share it and we can let the community
know that because that's the question
that we're getting asked and we're not
we're not currently telling them that
and that advice from health is not
anywhere that was my first question and
the second question was in relation to
any risk assessment for workers who
had been engaging with the mulch
potentially I think up to two years
maybe the estimation we've made about
how long this contamination batch or
batches may have impacted but I'll let
you correct me about that so it's
outside that's lower risk but if you
have a situation where we have regular
work we now know workers are looking
after themselves and the city has a good
regime going forward but for when we
didn't know and you have the reg workers
regularly dealing with the contaminated
mulch without that equipment that we've
now imposed without the masks without
the gloves and potentially moving it
around indoors to break it up in order
to then take it out on site when it's
outdoors is the assessment about the
risk to what those workers might have
experienced different than people who
went outside to the
park thank you yes thanks for your
questions in terms of the
communication of the risk assessment as
Mr DWI has said more information has
been coming in over the over the period
of Investigation from EPA we I do
believe on our website we do have advice
about risk from this bondless best is
low but I think you're right we don't
specifically talk on our website at
least about about this particular
investigation we have been
gathering information with the EPA as
that has built the body of evidence to
understand and what the risk is now
and we are having further formal risk
assessments undertaken in the coming
days with experts just review all the
data we have as it's come in to be able
to be have some firm advice we can
place on the website but we will
update our website as that information
is available in terms of the second
question about health of workers I
would really need to defer to Safe work
who are the Regulators in that area
my understanding however is that the
factors we've talked about earlier about
the bondus bestos the lack of
availability for the fibers to Brea in
would still apply to workers but
not being an expert in occupational
health and safety I would defer to Safe
work for
that thanks Dr mcnalty
councel Hy
CH thank you Lord mayor I've got two
questions to carollyn
Welsh my first question really
relates to the response management from
EPA and through your task
force how has the support been
provided to manage this in collaboration
with local governments across New South
Wales thanks councelor so in terms of
the response management the
government set up immediately an
incident management team and
appointed Steven bean from the EPA as
the lead for that incident management
team that brought immediate
response agencies together in a single
place to to work from that
includes fire and res SK EPA safe
work and others and in terms of local
government as I mentioned the office
of local government and the local
government New South Wales are actually
represented on the task force themselves
to try to facilitate information out to
council so local government for New
South Wales for instance just recently
released to all Council some protocols
around this matter some information an
information packed to councils about
it there of course has only been a
handful of councils actually directly
impacted by this because of the
concentrated nature of this largely
within the Sydney area and a
couple of spots in Regional New South
Wales but not more
generally CC
chair thank you Lord mayor my second
question Caroline you have 35 years of
independent expertise in assurance and
governance you did talk about the
tracking and tracing process what is the
evidence in terms of the confidence we
have you said earlier today
3340 sites across New South Wales have
been tested by the EPA you just now at
committees have addressed and said 90%
of the product has been trace and
tracked what is the confidence level
of this and what about all other mulch
sites
so so personally as a chair of the task
force I am very confident in the
quality of the tracing and tracking
that's actually been happening as part
of this process it's been very thorough
and meticulous and we're getting that
reporting on a on a daily basis from
from the incident management team who's
undertaking that work obviously more
information will become available as the
investigation rolls out and is complete
so I'm not saying that that work is all
complete but I've been very confident
in the quality of the work of the team
has been doing I think the standing up
of both the incident management team and
the task force more generally has meant
that bringing in resources for to
supplement the epa's own team because
normally EPA would be the response
Agency for this but only has a limited
amount of resources so through the task
force for instance being able to bring
in Fire and Rescue to use their much
greater level of resources for Incident
Management which they agreed to do we
got testing done over one weekend a few
a month or so ago that would have
taken
weeks with just single agency
responses to this so the bringing
together of the task force to ensure
that we get the resourcing from a hall
of government perspective I think it's
been very
important thank you counc
Scott thank you just on that last
Point Carolyn we've heard from the
Lord mayor at the beginning of the
meeting about a suggested time frame
for how long it might take if the city
were to undertake the testing of I
think three years but in light of the
updated information you've given us
today about the
you know consideration by safe
work and the task force about the future
qualifications that people might need
and that might be
I'm paraphrasing so please correct me
if I'm wrong you know we might expand
the number of people who are eligible to
undertake this testing is there any
work that's been done on a revised time
frame I'm assing that the time
frame we've heard at the beginning of
the meeting is likely now incorrect in
light of the changes underway to expand
the franchise of people who are able to
test I'm not going to comment on the
on the data that was provided earlier in
the meeting about the I just don't have
the information about the scope of the
city's Assets in relation to parks
and Gardens to be able to comment on
whether that's an accurate assessment
that would be a a matter to ask of
management I think the core of the
issue is whether it's necessary to do
based on risk because given that we
do have growing confidence which we will
actually round out in a matter of days
if not weeks but very soon about
the confidence that we've identified
exactly where the supply of this
contamination went the question is why
you would actually do
further testing without any evidence
that you've got a problem anywhere else
so that goes to the sort of questions
about the confidence in the supply chain
generally and whether we've identified
any other Sy system systemic issues in
terms of the product Supply so that
would be a matter of obviously for the
city but to do so wouldn't be on the
advice of the task force or the agencies
within the task force counc
Wen thank you just further to what
you've just stated you're you're on
out the council's what was it the audit
committee thank you so in terms of
arrest process I'm just concerned
about I mean I know you sort of have
referred it but we were actually
Council were actually advised that
that our that we're advised that we
hadn't Source mulch from green life
but in fact that we have
and we'll probably need to get some
further information around why we've
received that and now we've been told
that we have and and so in terms of
risk managing the information that
you're now providing us is very
different to what we've been provided to
and being involved into the audit and
the risk committee how would you feel
for coun for me as a councel to actually
raise this issue to try and get this
been resolved and that the information
not being consistent and that creates
greater risk for not only the council
but those people being
exposed so I think the first issue is to
be clear that about that supply
chain issue because the initial advice
was that you weren't receiving mulch was
correct that you hadn't received mulch
directly from CL green life it only then
became subsequently apparent through the
supply chain that you had sourced it
from other suppliers that you were
reliant on that information really from
other parties through the epa's
investigation through the supply chain
to actually identify who those parties
might be and and that happened in the
following weeks concerning about the
length of time but but it
wasn't really in the city's gift to know
who the suppliers were who were affected
in this in this issue down the
supply chain so in terms of the audit
and risk committee two things I did need
to disclose that I'm the chair of your
audit committee being also the chair of
this task force when we meet next as a
committee which is in the next few weeks
clearly this is going to be on the
agenda of the audit risk committee for
our discussion and I will seek the
guidance of my colleagues on the
committee about whether they'd like to
see me recuse myself for a period of
time from that committee so they can
have a full and open discussion with
management about the issue given that I
am leading the the task force and I'll
give them an opportunity to do that to
discuss the the issue with me
outside the room
Council won thank you so in terms of
actually the accuracy of information and
the flow on effect in terms of the
supply chain it's actually really
concerning that we are getting told and
I understand what you've just stated but
in terms of what we actually think we
have versus actually what we're been
advised if we actually hadn't had this
extraordinary meeting this information
had would not have come to light in the
way that they had and certainly in the
time frames
right okay so well thank you very much
Miss Walsh and Dr m
m
so as so we've now been had an
opportunity to to speak to members of
the public our our our special guests
before us I'm going to move that we go
back into Council and the council
meeting be reconvened and the what we
have before us is my meril
minute and and it's seconded by the
deputy Lord
mayor sorry so I'll put the
procedural motion to you all those in
favor say I those against declare it
carried thank you and so now we're
dealing with the M meril minut and M
minute I think seconded by the deput May
y so do I have any speakers on the M
minute
Council Scott thanks Lord mayor I
also had some questions for City staff
if I might sorry I also had some
questions for City staff if I might
yes so I contacted City staff
via email in early January as I
noted earlier in response to questions
from one of the city's residents
Natasha with concerns about her son
and was advised that the city did not
have green life in our supply chain
but it has now emerged as has been
spoken about today that we did why
did the city not know who was in our
supply chain and what what processes
did the city undertake to investigate
who was in our supply chain before
providing counselors with false
Assurance see you thank you Lord mayor
so our report to council outlines on
the 10th of January we all heard via
transport for New South Wales that some
contaminated mulch had been found at
the res Rosel Parklands and and that
was something we saw in the media so
immediately I asked
staff then I think it took a couple of
days and then it was announced that the
supplier was the supplier green life and
so I asked staff to ask our suppliers
whether they used that supplier and they
advised that they did not and so at that
point we had no reason to think that we
needed to do anything now what we've got
to keep in mind is that the EPA then
started an investigation and brought 120
staff together and took nearly four
weeks to interrogate the supply chain to
be able to give us that information so
that took the EPA 4 weeks and 20 people
to do that work to be able to identify
that something had gone a miss and as
soon as they advised us of that we acted
no one after that first press release as
far as I know across New South Wales
started testing anything because no one
had any information to indicate that
they should so we acted absolutely
appropriately there was an incident
incidents happened it could have just
been an isolated incident we did our due
diligence and
checked we were told no you don't appear
to have a problem then after a month of
Investigation by the EPA with 120 people
working on it they interrogated the
supply chain and were able to give us
that information and of course we acted
immediately the other thing I would say
is this that if
if something untoward or inappropriate
has
happened and this is now becomes a
subject of a criminal investigation then
clearly there may be people who
deliberately didn't do the right thing
and deliberately misled people so we
don't know yet the investigation is
underway we'll see what the EPA does but
essentially we did the right thing we
sought Assurance we got Assurance the
EPA then discovered that that Assurance
was faulty provided us with information
and we used that information to then
check where we had when we received that
supply and where we had placed that
supply and that's how we identified the
43 parks and 135 Gardens thanks Lord
mayor thank you
CEO do I have any Council
SC thank you in the past the city has
been concerned about the Integrity of
our supply chains in the waste area to
the point where we have placed bugs
in our waste to track where our waste
was going so we've we've previously had
concerns about the Integrity of our
supply chain waste and we've undertaken
investigative measures to understand
where our waste was going literally
bugging our waste why did we not take
precautions to test the insurances
that we've been falsely given by our
contractors in this instance such as
we have in other cases with our
waste so for the past 20 years or so
we've had no issues with this I think
I've answered the question the point is
that the EPA commenced an investigation
and it took them four weeks to tell us
there might be a problem that's the
complexity of the investigation so on
you know we do need to rely on the
Integrity of the system that we work
within right there we use many of us use
many products we buy things from our
supermarkets we get drugs from our
doctors and we have to be confident that
those products have integrity we don't
you know interrogate every single one of
them because we'd never be able to we
rely on the bodies that do that to do
that work there has been a failure and
the EPA are trying to get to the bottom
of that failure but it was not something
that the city on its own how could the
city on its own do something that's
taking the EPA 120 people with all of
their expertise thanks Lord
mayor Council counc
Wen Monica just so I'm clear a staff
able to
advise whether our contractors did in
fact source cult and green life directly
because what I've learned from the new
southwales task force that it appears
that this may have been the
case and that the city has given a false
Assurance from our
contractors see
you so as carollyn Walsh said this is
still the the subject of Investigation
to work out at what point the
contamination entered the system and who
who right but what I know is that our
suppliers said that they did not Del
get it directly that there was at least
another layer between them and the
contaminated Source but of course that's
what the whole investigation and contact
tracing or supply chain tracing is
out to do is to work that out thank you
Lord mayor thank you
councilor
Scott thank you so since the EPA
advised us I'm eager to understand
what more independent investigation the
city has done have we set up our own
task force we are obviously regulated
by the EPA and to some extent they are
going to evaluate our processes so I
I understand we've received advice today
but we set up our own task force
what other independent investigations
are we undertaking to give ourselves
more levels of confidence about our
own supply chain it's been reported
that the highly toxic Frable asbestos
may have been in B Centennial Park in
GLE for as long as 6 months is the
city making publicly available the
dates on which the mulch was laid in the
Parks where there has been asbestos
identified so people have the ability to
determine possible exposure and
whether they should as Dr MCN has
advised contact their medical
professional
and where is the city publishing the
list of parks I know in the
initial stages there was publication
of the parks that had tested positive
but I think the community would
appreciate transparent advice advice
about which parks are being tested
when the mulch was laid so that if
they need to they can understand whether
they've had exposure and whether they
need to consult medical and other
professionals Lord May through you so we
update the website every day and have
from the moment we got information
about this and every day I send the
counselors an update of any test
results and we and whenever we send you
that update we also update the website
as Veronica Point show went
through in her briefing earlier we
have a number of communications channels
so we make sure it's on the website we
do media releases if required social
media you know all the usual channels we
use and that has occurred since the
moment we had this information obviously
took a few days to set up that
Communications infrastructure we then
obviously at the same time notify the
EPA no we don't have our own task
force what we did do was immediately set
up the crisis management system team
who just dealt with that as a crisis
in the beginning until we were able to
docent the processes we would
Implement in order to deal with this
issue and now we have a critical in
incident Response Team working on it but
I think the thing I think the answer to
your question in probably councilor
Scot is that what you need to be assured
of and you did hear this from the guest
speakers in the briefing is the city is
is doing everything in full Accord with
the processes that are outlined in the
various reg legislation regulation what
you know the the the way that this is
meant to be managed is it is all being
managed in that way right now obviously
that's a matter for you know you can now
ask your audit risk committee can you
check that what Monica has said is true
that they have been systematically
implementing processes and procedures in
accordance with all the regulation for
dealing with these matters and staff
will present audit and risk and can give
that Assurance just as Veronica did
earlier in the
briefing but I don't think it is
appropriate to ask the city to set up
its own investigation there is an
investigation underway by the regulator
and we need to let them do their work
and find out what happened here and then
of course we hope that as a consequence
of their work we will have new
insights into how this has occurred new
insights into how to avoid it in the
future and also you know processes
that are very much fit for fit for
this level of risk so I think that
I'm confident that I've answered your
question yes you have thank you so so
other counselors wish
to so I'll put the recommendation to
council
won thank
you I called for this extraordinary
meeting with the support of the
counselors on this side of the bench to
address the city's response to and the
management of the risks associated with
asbestos contamination in our parks and
Gardens I think there is something
seriously wrong with our meeting
processes and practices that the
contamination of our local parks with
asbestos was not considered or addressed
at our February council
meeting I would have thought there would
have been a lord mayor minute or CEO's
memorandput forward at that meeting
which occurred a week after we first
learned about the possible contamination
of city
parks instead our questions were
rejected I was in shock when Clover Mo
independent team of counselors voted
against a simple procedural motion to
allow for the questions and discussions
of the
matter nonetheless it's critical as
elected representatives that we
interrogate and coordinate our response
and that we do so in a public fornot
just in a briefing where it's closed
doors on that note Lord may I reject the
assertion that this crisis has been
politicized to be
reprimanded for fearmongering when
advocating for best practice governance
is
offensive to have not been held this
meeting today would have been a failure
of
Duty especially to those generations of
First Nations children where they've had
family members that have lost their
lives to their exposure of asbestos in a
park that we know has been going on for
generations and generations of a
festival that we support in that Park
where we didn't think that it was
necessary to actually do early screening
and
testing I appreciate that this is an
evolving situation and that many are
working around the clock to
respond thank you to Veronica and the
staff for preparing their report to
council today I also note that the new
southwales task force coordination and
thank the representatives for joining
us although I support the actions
detailed in this minute I still have
some outstanding questions and concerns
which before today had not been
communicated to counselors I put forward
these questions in a motion
and I thank the staff and the task force
to responding to
those Council
Scott thanks Lord mayor I note the
Lord mayil minute that you have put
forward and in it I note that you
have asked the council to consider a
resolution which would write to the
state government and ask for a range of
sources of advice I believe we've
had the benefit of hearing about
the responses to those from
Carolyn Walsh today she said she's
going to table the terms of
reference she's noted that the
office of Chief scientists and Engineers
of spal management review which was
commissioned before this incident is
not yet complete and so the
government doesn't have it to give to
the council and she's noted
that they're investigating whether or
not there is a need for Stronger
penalties to prevent mul Supply
chains being contaminated with Theos in
the future and we'll make independent
recommendations to government if they
believe that is the case so Lord
mayor in light of having answers
to those questions what I'd like to
do is move an amendment which seeks
to Delete from your May or
minute a b and c and replace it
Lord May with the provisions in my
notice of motion that are on the
papers with a b and c Lord
mayor that notice of motion seeks to
provide some more details about a
time frame about when the city was
asked to test
and also seeks to provide more
information about U the testing as we
know it at the moment it also in Part
B seeks to formally refer this matter to
the city's audit risk and compliance
committee and requests the chair to
commission an independent investigation
into the asbestos outbreak with terms
of reference to be determined by the
committee and as the CEO has alluded
to my personal View although we're
leaving it to the chair of the audit and
risk committee my personal view would be
to have the audit and risk committee
undertake an investigation of course not
about whether there's any criminality
in the supply chain that's not our
role as a council but to investigate how
the city handled this to look
carefully at whether we have met our
own obligations to give counselors and
Regulators Comfort about whether we
have done that or not and of course
to examine whether there are
opportunities perhaps for example to
recommend that in future we undertake
more thorough controls and testing of
our own supply chain so that this kind
of incident can be prevented in future
and then also Lord May that the
CEO is requested to undertake in part C
testing across all City
publicly available sites with mulch
provide legal advice to counselors on
liability provide advice to counselors
on the estimated resourcing implications
which I note until today we hadn't
received and I note the Lord May's made
some claims I've not seen those or
heard those before this meeting
provide weekly briefings to councilors
on the progress and precautions again
Lord mayor noting that our first
briefing in person about this matter
was actually today and bring a
revised budget to council with provision
for any future liability and any
other relevant
expenses and Lord may I move that
Amendment because I think that this is
more in line with our own obligations
it's absolutely right for the state
government to be questioned about their
handling of this matter that is the
right and appropriate thing to do Lord
mayor but we are the governing body of
this Council we've had not
insignificant exposure to a very
seriously dangerous material to People's
Health we've received false information
about our own supply chain and we all
hope collectively that this never
happens again and so I think it is
appropriate Lord mayor that we refer
this matter to the audit and risk
Committee of this Council and ask them
to set the terms of reference for an
inquiry into how this Council has
managed this issue with a view to
making recommendations back to council
about how we can do this better in
future and also to give us comfort that
we have met our
obligations Lord mayor this is
obviously incredibly serious and I too
am disappointed to note that it took
council's calling a special meeting for
us to be able to address this I have
asked a huge range of questions
many of which still have not been
answered Lord mayor I asked them on
the night we were informed in writing
about this I note Lord mayor you were
informed formed several days before
the rest of the council was and
Lord mayor we do have a right as
directors of this organization to get
some answers and the public has a right
the public has a right to know about
U the kinds of answers to the
questions that we've asked Lord mayor
and so I move that Amendment and do
so I hope in the spirit of us all
being able to as directors of this
Council as councilors seek Assurance
from our audit and risk committee
and that we've met our obligations
seek independent examination of that
and seek recommendations to ensure this
again doesn't happen in the
future so is there a second for the
amendment Council welon so we're dealing
with the amendment it's not an amendment
that I
accept do I have any speakers on the
amendment Council
thank you Lord mayor I am inclined
to vote against the amendment but I I
would like to speak to whether you
are open to an amendment for us to
receive further advice in relation
to how we as a council are going to
respond to what is clearly still an
uncertain environment so your lord meril
minut as refers to the state government
acknowledges the task force I have to
say that after today I am not reassured
about the state government and their
role the looking at mulch only and we
might consider some other you know down
the track we know we'll get to that
kind of comments in relation to the soil
field for example there have and to be
honest a lack of acknowledgement of the
couple of previous inquiries that the
EPA ran 2019 and earlier that had
been Covered In Articles like the
guardian which found systemic failures
that have been not addressed it would
have been more appropriate for the
speakers from from the state government
today to speak to us and say we
acknowledge these issues were there and
we are going to make sure we address
them this time yes we we were were some
references to we needed some more
resources to follow this but it does not
Inspire confidence I also have concerns
about there is a direct conflict of
interest between as we are assessing
liability and risk and legal advice that
we may receive as a council about our
role for our Elder and risk committee to
consider if the chair is also the
chair of the task force and so I it's
one of the reason reasons I don't
support Council of Scott's Amendment
though I think it I I agree with parts
of it is that I don't we would need to
address some of those issues before we
could have confidence that that was an
independent inquiry without that chain
like we just need to acknowledge that
there's a direct foreseeable conflict
there and that we don't need to wait
for the audin risk committee to name it
is there is a clear conflict and we
would if we were going to call an
independent inquiry we' need to manage
it in the terms that we established so
we have a situation where it is
extremely likely that there is going to
be not just Morris bestas but lead and
other cont minant for the systemic
failure of the EPA and state agencies to
that are from recycled and waste
materials building waste materials that
have not yet been identified that have
been there for a very long time where
there are reports of fake testing and
people gaming the system and people
lying to the state government and it's
going to keep but we've got to keep
using products that come from those
suppliers so what are we going to do
about that what's our due diligence to
make sure we feel comfortable knowing
there's a lot of uncertainty but we a
lot of risks have come out of this that
are not going to be addressed by The
Mulch inquiry so that's so I'm not
going to vote in favor of the amendment
even though I agree with parts of it for
those reasons but I would ask whether
the Lord mayor would consider or whether
staff could reassure us that we can get
further advice including budget
implications about what risk management
framework we're going to put in place
while this task force is going on
because we expect that these products
are going to keep turning up
and we have to try and find them and we
can't wait for them to finish their job
to do it because quite frankly they
failed to do that in two inquiries so
far we yeah it was prudent for us to
to be
proactive thank you do I have any other
speakers on the council
Bing I will not be supporting a
council Scott's amendments on this
the Lord Merill minute I I what I
like about this Lord Merill minute it is
full of f fact there's no fear in it
we've heard from speakers today facts
and not fear most of the report that
I read I had received all that
information prior I think the city of
Sydney has done an incredible job of
getting information out to counselors
staff media and residents at exactly the
same time the information I too have
also had many people contact me whether
it's on social media or whether it's
people in the street asking me about
mulch questions and I've been able to
answer every single one of those
questions with confidence based on the
information that we are constantly
receiving everybody who I've spoken to
has said thank you very much for that
information it's given us reassurance
please keep us updated I've always said
to them always look at the city website
always look at our social media the
information is there I think you've
also only got to look at the great
story that was in the guardian last week
and also a publication that is based on
facts
not fear media 11 times in that docu
in that article it it mentioned the
word low risk actually Somebody went as
far as calling it very very very low so
I commend you Lord mayor I think this
is a fantastic La May minute and I will
be supporting
it thank you Council
chair thank you Lord mayor I Rise to
speak against councilor Scott's
amendment I won't be V voting for and
supporting the amendment and I will be
voting for your lord mayal minute Lord
mayor we've heard from our discussions
this morning from the experts from the
Independent advisers that there are many
state government agencies involved there
are many stakeholders who are involved
in this investigation into what we can
do to ensure our community safety from
the environment Protection Agency to
Fair trading to new southwales Health to
the chief scientists it's really
important that we we continue doing this
work in terms of what stated in your
lord maril minute so that we involve the
New South Wales Premier the minister for
health Minister for environment the
minister for work health and safety
these
are council is seriously concerned about
the contamination about the supply chain
how did this happen and we need to
release the information have the
transparency so that we can ensure that
this doesn't happen again the progress
on the new southwales Chief scientists
and their report on asbestos management
review needs to happen this was
commissioned in December
2022 it's also really important that we
have that information from the sestos
task force that has been convened by the
new southwes government this includes
the regulations of the quality control
you know looking at how this has
actually occurred and what is the cause
we still don't know the cause yet Lord M
and the state governments as we've heard
it will will be looking into this yes it
will take time but I think it is really
important that our
community across the communities that
has been impacted by this in New South
Wales have the right answers this
includes any potential penalties for
breaches
re relevant to the state's
regulations so it's important that we
continue and keep the Lord maril minutes
rather than amending it because we want
to find out the details from the
relevant agencies and their
collaboration together on the progress
with the investigations to date so that
we can have the answers and really
encourage and ensure that there are
stricture stricter rules and more
penalties to really Ensure that this
doesn't happen again and prevent mul
Supply chains being contaminated with
asbestos in the future thank you Council
chair Council Council Davis thank you
Lord mayor I too am speaking against the
amendment and we've listened to a number
of experts here today which we're
really grateful for in explaining
just how complex this issue is we are
not the Specialists and it's such a
broad scope I guess decision as to
the outcomes and moving forward the
investigations are deep and complex and
as well you know there are alternatives
on the table as to moving forward and
how we can best work with communities
and reassuring them of the asbestos
contamination but at the same time
low risk it's very low risk and I have a
number of people from the permont
resident action groups watching today
who are saying when are we going going
to get PMA Park back this is a it is
not as complex and these are people that
are exposed to and worked in the ESP St
area that pulled me up yesterday in
passing in relation to this and I asked
them to watch this particular committee
meeting today and they believe and
agree with what our experts are saying
here today phone calls as well from
people to my office concerned about
you know the delays in getting back to I
guess our children being able to play
in those Parks so I'm speaking against
the amendment today and allow the
experts to do their job thank you Deputy
Mayor thank you LA mayor May no doubt
this is a very serious issue we
that we have here we have heard of
course from Koln Walsh from leader
of the task task force thank you very
much for for attending today and and
putting some perspective on on what's
been been happening lber there is a
timeline that what has happened
that we heard from CEO and as well as
all the experts earlier on and of
Staff as well 10 January of course
the you know transport for new I was
issued a media release confirming that
there had been the speci contaminated M
identified within Roselle Parklands mean
after that that happened you know we
we went to work and non 19 generary
counselors were advised that M use
but was not sourced from Green Light
based on the insurances from our
suppliers and contractors is what that
was based on what information we had at
that time and and and from then on we
have been getting updates regularly
from from our CEO you know daily
daily updates and and our staff has been
working tirelessly so I'd like to
take this opportunity also to to to
to thank thank the staff for their their
tiess work on on this I mean they they
they they take this very seriously
item three of the of the agenda today
laot mayor the city's response to
contaminate mouch that get gives a you
know we have we have that before us it
gives a very very comprehensive
outline of what what has been done and
what is to be done the city as we
heard from our experts earlier that
has operated on a higher level in that
we employing license at bestor
removalist you know places where we
we are not required to so we a
lot L May I I I I object to the
notion that it has taken this meeting to
have any action taken action has been
taken much earlier on by our staff
and I'm U very confident of our staff
on and advice from the experts and from
the health experts as well that we heard
today the city has been doing work
from the from d day one and and I like I
can you know thank the CE and the
leadership enough that you know we
are very concerned and staff has been
doing their work so I thank thank them
for that so A Lot may I would not be
able to support this am motion thank you
thank you councilors for your
contributions as I said when I
introduced my minute
Council she spoken Council Wen thank
you I'd like to speak to the amendment
just to note that this meeting has only
occurred today as a result of the
concern from the councilors on this side
of the bench our discussion today has
been significant it's great that we're
finally receiving the information I
disagree with councilor Walling not sure
where you're getting your updates but
much of the
information we've been provided with
today has been relayed for the first
time in much more detail than the one
one or two sentences updates from the
CEO and the information provided to the
community we need to be clear around
this meeting taking place is a result of
an extraordinary motion that was a
motion that was put forward to have this
extraordinary meeting to ensure that all
of us receive the information accurately
and also make sure that the public is
receiving information that has not
occurred for
all thank you as when I introduced my
I I I pointed out that the issues we're
facing with apress contamination have
not been caused by the city of Sydney
instead there is a massive failure of
state-based reg regulatory systems and
my my meril minute is calling for
responses from those agencies and those
State ministers who are responsible for
the regulation of of of of mulch
and and of asbestos I'd like to thank
our our speakers who came came today
Caroline Walsh and and the others
thank thank you for your your direct
information I want to thank our staff
for their immediate action when the
problem was was raised I'd like to
thank our staff and particularly the
CEO for the continuous information that
councilors have received I hope gather
from what's being said today that some
of them don't read the information they
get but also the community has been
able to see it on the website so thank
you you for that and I think it's
important that that this minute is
passed by all counselors so we do get a
response from those who are responsible
for this this contamination that
has led to the financial impact on
the city and and on our residents
and not being able to access access
their important public space and
these are really serious issues for us
but our staff have been dealing with the
minimmost responsible ma Manner and I
think it's really important we start
getting not only answers from the
government but actions so that we'll
prevent this from happening in the
future so I'll put the recommendation in
the minute to
you am all right sorry I'll put the
amendment to you
first all those in favor of the
amendment those
against amendments lost I now put the
recommendation in my M minute Council
Scott thanks Lord May I'd just like to
speak to the recommendation
itself councilor Scott thank you Lord
mayor I don't support the
resolution that's now before us which is
in your maril minute and I don't for
a couple of reasons firstly as we've
heard today we don't have any
Assurance that the city has acted
swiftly and responsibly we don't have
any independent Assurance of that even
from the city's own audit and risk
committee which is pretty unusual
on most boards no board would act
without independent insur Assurance
of advice and we haven't received
that in this case we also don't have
any independent assurance that the
remediation of contaminated areas is
being done in accordance with work
health and safety regulations and safe
work New South Wales we haven't heard
that from safe work in New South Wales
we haven't heard that from the task
force we haven't heard that from
any investigation that our own audit and
risk committee has done Lord mayor
we do receive regular updates from the
CEO but as I noted earlier I still
have a large number of questions that I
asked on the day that we were informed
about this that remain unanswered
and then Lord mayor in part c your
requesting yourself to write to the
premier Minister for health Minister
for the environment and Minister for
work health and safety to express
council's concern and asking how this
happened well in this case this is a
failure of our own supply chain Lord
mayor so it is not the case that
the new southwes government needs to
explain how the city of Sydney had false
information about what kind of mulch
was in our supply chain and that it was
contaminated with his bestos Lord May
that is that is a job for the city of
Sydney to answer and Lord mayor
you're also seeking information from
the New South Wales government asbestos
task force Lord mayor we have
literally heard today the answers to all
these questions from the chair who
literally sat at the end of our table at
the beginning of this meeting to answer
all those questions so Lord mayor
I don't support this I don't have
independent Assurance about the advice
provided in here you've listed off some
costs and figures
Lord mayor that appear on the surface
of the other advice that we've been
given to be manifestly incorrect we
don't have any financial information
other than what we were briefed this
morning through slides about what this
is costing and the figures you've stated
Lord mayor about the total costs of
testing we have nowhere written down
from staff the time frame you've
outlined we don't have that
information other than what you've just
read out Lord mayor and so I don't
have confidence that the information
before is all the information or the
right information and so on that
basis I don't support this Lord meril
minute I think U there are several other
alternatives on the paper that call for
our our own independent investigation
this this local government to seek our
own Assurance Lord mayor and that is
the appropriate Way Forward in my
view see you like to say
something
yes you me just on this question of
costs just so that we're all clear so
the council report advises that to date
we've spent
$200,000 on the
tests and that our contractor is Curr
currently covering the cost of the
fencing and Remediation now we also say
that you know we don't know how that's
all going to play out and it may require
some additional resources from Council
but we also heard from the EPA that they
may also review the remediation
process in which case it may reduce that
impost so that's why we can't answer
that question you speak about the Lord
mayor's estimates that the Lord mayor
outlined in her opening remarks and
I'm just I think what the Lord May's
done correctly is said if it cost
$200,000 to do the 43 tests if you
divide that 200 by that each test costs
about
$4,150 right and then if you times that
by the number that we say in the report
350 parks and
1,819
Gardens that's how you get to the 9
million just for testing so that's how
that number was arrived at I'm guessing
from the Lord May's office basically
dividing the amounts we gave you by the
number of tests and multiplying that by
the number of
sites that would be required if we
resolved to test all the gardens and all
the parks and I'll just clarify because
the report says this there are
5,750
Gardens but they are in
1,819 sites so just to be clear a site
might be a street where you might have a
garden a driveway a garden a driveway
and a roundabout right and there might
be 10 or 20 of those and they're called
a sight right so we have what and that
would be determined because that's the
way staff would map them there are
1,819 sites and within that
5,750 Gardens separate Gardens now that
number of tests that I've just quoted
wouldn't be doing all
5,750 it would simply be doing each of
the sites not every individual Garden it
would still be millions of dollars and
if it takes a week what is it three a
week we're getting 13 tests back a week
it's going to take years so that's why
it's not appropriate to do that but it's
also mostly not appropriate because no
one's advising us that we should and
that is the advice that we've had from
the experts thank you Lord mayor thank
you
I i' just like to say again that this
this has been a really serious issue for
us that we've had to deal with a really
serious issue that's not been caused by
us but it's been caused by regulatory
failure on behalf of the state
government and I can understand why
councilor Scott keeps on wanting to say
oh no the city's to blame the fact of
the matter it isn't and and any
sensible intelligent person would
understand that it's having a serious
impact on our public because our Parks
have been have not many of our
Parks have not been available to our
community who need them and it's
going it's it's already having an impact
in terms of our finances so so this this
is an important issue I I want the
the the staff to continue to do the work
that they're doing and working with the
EPA and I want the CEO and and and
her team continue to give us the
information that they've been giving us
and I'd like to get answers from the
state government and that's why I think
it's really important that you all
support the recommendations in my meral
minute so I'll put those recommendations
to you all those in favor say
I those
against so
that's two were against and one
didn't vote so it's three three against
so it's
73 so thank you very much for your item
three the city's response to
contaminated
mulch all right okay I was so item
three
CEO Lord mayor I think we've covered all
of the material in that CEO report and I
think the recommendation is simply to
note that report so everything that we
had that report was signed off on Friday
afternoon so that was all the test
results we had till Friday afternoon all
the processes of course we're still
awaiting seven tests so as that
information comes in we'll let you know
and then we have to deal with the garden
sites 135 Garden sites that are still
we've done five the ones near schools
and childcare centers but we still got
to work out how we do those additional
135 sites we might get some advice from
the EPA and the task force that might
help us to do that a little bit more
quickly so Lord mayor simply to note
the report thank you I'll move the
recommendation that's seed by the deputy
Lord mayor I'll put that to you all
those in fav to say I sorry Lord mayor I
have a question Council scone thanks
I note that we're to receive more
information about the budget but I
wondered whether the city has plans
to make provision for whether there's
any claims against the city we know
for example that there is low risk
and that is very welcome but if it is
the case that in I think we've heard
today 20 30 40 years there should be
a case of asbestosis discovered with
has the city made any provision or
planning to make any provision for
future claims against the city on the
basis of Health
so Lord mayor I think look obviously
as as things evolve we will have more
information about any costs for us
immediate costs you know any
additional costs of changing practices
those sorts of things and we will
provide that as that comes to light and
of course adjust budgets in terms of
making Provisions for somebody maybe
getting ill in 30 to 40 years time I
mean you did we did provide you with
legal advice it does refer to the
kind of liability and the ability
that is confidential legal advice that
was provided in Friday's Co update so I
might leave it at that of course as
Council you know always you know you
know anticipates the things that it's
required to do again you know we might
get a ruling from state government in
the future that says all councils now
need to provide for and we will deal
with that if that should be a change to
the accounting code or the requirements
thank you lordman I think it's covered
in the legal advice so I'll put the
recommendation to
you
that was sign by may put to you all
those in favor say
I those against carried uny thank you
item four notices of motion 4.1 city of
Sydney asbestos crisis councilor
Scott there is an opportunity for you
to withdraw your motions given that
we've covered these subjects
exhaustively thanks Lord mayor no I'd
like to move it and in doing so note
that I've been contacted by a large
number of residents
who are and remain concerned
about the fact that the city is not
testing all Sites and we've heard
today about the pretty basic
multiplication that seems to have
been done in the Lord mayor's office
not on the basis of any it seems proper
advice or Actuarial analysis of what
the actual costs or time frame might be
I can absolutely understand people
are both impatient to get back into
the city's Parks but also Keen to have
proper testing and Proby around
whether or not there is a current or
future risk to health and so on that
basis Lord mayor I move my notice of
motion which notes the time frames
that Council has received advice
notes and seeks to formally refer
this matter for independent assurity to
the city's audit risk and compliance
committee and ask the CEO to
undertake testing for all of the
city's Early Education and Care Centers
Parks playgrounds garden beds and areas
with mulch and ensure that results
are publicly available on the city's
website
thanks seconder councilor Jared
speakers I'll put the motion to you
all those in favor say
I those
against declare it
lost item 4.2 espesos in city of Sydney
Parks Council Jared thank you Lord
mayor my motion covers an issue that's
not been covered by any of the
discussions that we've had here today
very interesting discussions very
informative discussions but my qu motion
goes to Lord mayor where were you in all
of this in terms of your Communications
with the people of the city of
Sydney this is an issue that arose in
mid January this
year this is motion is with respect
to where was the communication from the
Lord mayor and her team to the people of
the city of
Sydney prior to any of the information
points of order Lord May a point of
order Council jar could you sit down
please another code of meeting practice
14.9 D through you Lord mayor what
exactly is
councelor Jarrett insinuating
here I'm not insinuating anything
councelor Chen I'm putting forward a
motion with respect to actions that
should have been and should be taken as
a result of the council the Lord mayor
and her team lack of response in the two
months prior to the whole issue been
handed over to the EPA and if that's
considered disrespectful then that's the
end of honest debate at this
Council I don't uphold the point of a
councilor Jared do you wish to say
anything
else
yes unless you're finished continue to
finish with my
points around my notice of
motion we all heard about the Rosel
interchange issue in early mid
January why weren't necessary steps
taken to ensure the safety of the
residents and the visitors of this city
and not just rely on the opinions that
we got from all over the world you
actually state in your minute that
having safe parks and playgrounds is a
vital part of the work that we do at the
city but your team stayed silent you
were aware of the issues that were
involved and you were also aware of the
programs that were going to take place
in this city in our Parks as part of the
wonderful
Sydney City Christmas New Year events
but nothing was said
there was no accountability there was no
responsibility there was no concern
showed for the people of the city of
Sydney you've called others morally
reprehensible over various issues that
this city has taken part in but I
think your lack of action here speaks
voles as to the responsibilities of
your
team perhaps is an Engaged Lord mayor
you might have responded along the lines
of En of ensuring residents that you
care and I will ensure that we conduct
conduct our own audit of recently
mulched Parks particularly after
residents asked for that to be done
particularly in those parks and areas
where we are carrying out some of our
wonderful festivals and
events
nothing that isn't until councilors
Welden Scott and myself held a press
conference and then suddenly things
started to
flow in January only days after the news
broke of the asbest contamination in
razil the Young Festival was met ahead
in the Isabel Co Memorial Park we
discovered after that event the garden
beds in the park contained contaminated
mulch well we didn't Discover it the EPA
discovered this much loved Community
event was attended by thousands of
people where was the concern from the
Lord mayor and her team for those
participants in February again due to a
proactive
response the Migra committee was forced
to cancel
field day they were setting it
up and it had to be called off because
there was no evidence of communication
between what we felt should be done and
could be done and encouraging and
enabling the MRA Festival to either
relocate or to perhaps look at whether
there really was an issue
involved you all claim to be friends of
our indigenous and lgbtiq plus
communities but these were the very
people you failed to protect in your
lack of
communications point of order Lord mayor
council
Davis code of conduct 6.4 councilors
shall not make imputations of improper
motives or personal Reflections on
counselors employees of council and
members of public consistent with the
city's code of conduct thank you Council
Davis I uphold the point of
order well I'll withdraw that lack of
support then to the people of our
community so I've had personal
professional experience in relation to
asbest related diseases and people
should be made aware as soon as that
potential risk is identified not left to
regulators and bureaucrats to work
through a process and then advise people
of the
risks so where was the communication at
the beginning of this issue where was
this Council the three of us did stand
up and say what's going on but the rest
of the council didn't stand up and say
what is going on what are we telling to
our people to our
communities Lord mayor could have been
proactive and could have demonstrated
this concern that we hear about all the
time and let the communities of the city
know of the potential risks enabling
various communities to take proactive
actions if necessary and change things
around a little bit not being told we're
all going to wait and rely on a
bureaucracy to tell us what needs to be
done so in my motion I've asked that the
Lord May provide a written advice as to
why those Communications weren't
forthcoming and that concern wasn't
concerned I've also asked that we write
to the key stakeholders at the Yan
Festival people and express our concerns
with respect to that we took no action
once the possibility of this arise of
this contamination arising being given
to that group of people and also to the
SK key stakeholders of Migra again
expressing our apologies and our lack of
concern around their events this is a
very good example of where you've got to
walk the walk not just talk the talk as
it suits agendas that really are
embarrassing to the council agendas
require proactive actions and agendas
that might require apologies to people
when we don't necessarily look after
them s a second for that notice of
motion councilor
Canon do I have any speakers on that
notice of
motion Council
Davis maybe I'll chosen the wrong
time to speak but I'm speaking
against this notice of motion Lord mayor
because we did ATT tand Aran you know
with the care and due diligence and
commitment to our communities as well as
the
lgbtqa plus so I take offense to what
council Jarrett's just been speaking
about thank you Council Davis I have
any other
speakers I I'm just surprised that
Council Jarrett didn't withdraw her
notice of motion because in the light of
all the information that she's re
received and what she knows it's
really gratuitous political statement
so I'll put to you all those inv oh
Council Wen thank you I actually I ask
for speakers but you didn't say you I I
did put my hand up but you kept speaking
Lord mayor I actually support this
notice a motion the concerns that have
been raised are actually real there have
been people that have been exposed and
even though some people feel it safe to
be exposed are others in our community
that do not the communication has been
poor the communication has been
selective and although there's been some
reference here today even from the Lord
M about how they should be sensible and
intelligent understanding of the
information the information has only
been presented here today because there
was an extraordinary meeting
called prior to that when we tried to
ask those questions and when we did not
receive that information that is the
approach that has been undertaken I
support the this motion of councelor
jarretts because it is important to
ensure that the information is out there
and is actually on record if we didn't
have this meeting today the records
wouldn't be
accurate oh Council
chair Lord mayor it's been hearing from
councelor Jarrett talk about our duty of
care something that obviously we take
very seriously I think it's very
important that we recognize the risks
the kind of public health safety and how
we manage this
situation but I do think that the notice
of motion should in fact be ruled out
because we have supported as a
government through Council earlier on at
this meeting to support the Lord maral
minute the Lord maril minutes clearly
talks about how quickly Communications
were were provided how swiftly action
was taken in collaboration with other
agencies and of
course as Council Davis has mentioned
how the you the Lord mayor deeply cares
for our community and their well-being
the reports that has also been tabled
and also been moved today details
exactly what happened with fair day and
Yin so I actually think that's this
motion and should be ruled
out
so can't do that Council
Chan unfortunately I'll I'll put the
motion to you
I'll just a motion I'll put Council
Jarrett's notice of motion to you all
those in favor say
I those
against motion lost item 4.3 aspis
contamination of city parks and Gardens
Council won thank you Lord May because I
call this extraordinary meeting and we
finally received the information I will
withdraw my motion thank
you no so second to
withdraw councilor
illmore need to vote I'll put the
motion to withdraw to you all those in
favor say I those against declare it
carried thank you that's the end of the
meeting